Lesson 5. "What is render groups?"

by **AtlantiB** Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:31 am

exampels:

dedicated to XNAaraL,

by **XNAaraL** Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:42 am

Thanks.

Note:
Each mesh part must have a render-group-number, so that the mesh is visible in XNALara. The number determines the count of textures; The order of the textures; And the effects used (shadless, transparent ...)
The render-group-number precedes the Meshnamen. For example 1_Top for fabric or 2_Head for skin.
This mesh name is entered in Blender in the "Link and Materials" ->" Object Name" field. Example: (OB: 2_Head)

by **Love2Raid** Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:44 pm

Very interesting, thanks!

I am trying to do more with this for my mods, like changing render groups to add minibumps and mask textures for example. Very Happy

by **Dave-O** Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:40 pm

Nice AtlantiB but you missed out 20 Wink

by **XNAaraL** Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:32 pm

MeshGroup20 exist only since KnightThrall :-)

Code:: namespace XNALara { using System; public class KnightThrall : Item { public KnightThrall(Game game) : base(game) { } protected override void DefineCameraTargets() { base.AddCameraTarget("head", new string[] { "head jaw 2" }); base.AddCameraTarget("body upper", new string[] { "arm left shoulder 1", "arm right shoulder 1" }); base.AddCameraTarget("body lower", new string[] { "pelvis" }); base.AddCameraTarget("hand left", new string[] { "arm left wrist" }); base.AddCameraTarget("hand right", new string[] { "arm right wrist" }); base.AddCameraTarget("knee left", new string[] { "leg left knee" }); base.AddCameraTarget("knee right", new string[] { "leg right knee" }); base.AddCameraTarget("foot left", new string[] { "leg left ankle" }); base.AddCameraTarget("foot right", new string[] { "leg right ankle" }); } protected override void DefineMeshGroups() { base.model.DefineMeshGroup("MeshGroup20", new string[] { "Mesh001", "Mesh002", "Mesh003", "Mesh004" }); } protected override void SetRenderParams() { base.model.GetMesh("Mesh001").RenderParams = new object[] { 0.1f, 16f, 16f }; base.model.GetMesh("Mesh002").RenderParams = new object[] { 0.1f, 16f, 16f }; base.model.GetMesh("Mesh003").RenderParams = new object[] { 0.1f, 16f, 16f }; base.model.GetMesh("Mesh004").RenderParams = new object[] { 0.1f, 16f, 16f }; } } }

by **ClankDaxter** Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:05 pm

20 ? O.o xD Ohh god! Why does it skip from 10 to 15 to 20?

by **XNAaraL** Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:16 pm

Here are no skipping. Watch the video. AtlantiB have say: " The other Render Groups for static Meshes are not really interesting.

by **Dave-O** Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:03 pm

Ohh well anyway, 11 and 20 are interesting groups. 11 unfortunately will only work when you make the mesh into a croftmanorhall.mesh file since XNAaraL doesn't want to update the shader groups, but you can vertex shade upon it in Blender and this is very cool! I used in my Arctic Amelia environment. That took ages Razz

Shader group 20 is used the same as group 1 but it also supports alpha. I wish I had known this when I released Natla Thrall! I could have made the wings much better, although that's just me being a perfectionist Razz

It probably looks fine how it is Smile

by **XNAaraL** Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:33 am

Dave-O wrote:.. since XNAaraL doesn't want to update the shader groups

Make no false accusations !

by **ClankDaxter** Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:21 pm

XNAaraL wrote:
Dave-O wrote:.. since XNAaraL doesn't want to update the shader groups

Make no false accusations !

Calm down! Was it really an accusion? He just said you don't want to update the shader groups! That's no accusation... He is not saying you are guilty of something. It's just like saying:

"since XNAaraL doesn't want to eat his cookies"

That's no accusation! If you are not hungry, you won't eat cookies. If you don't feel like to update the shader groups, then you won't update them! But again, the point is, he did not accuse you of anything bad! I mean, nothing bad happens if you don't update the shader groups.

If you are really a moderator, you need to start seing the diference between a statement and an accusasion.

by **XNAaraL** Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:43 pm

Who would claim except CarbinT, I do not update anything? The topic News have many threads about a new update's by myself. So it is a false claim.

What exactly should be updated? I know the internas of XNALara. I know from my Programs. What are exactly the contents for the update the shader groups? Are the Render groups not only a numbe in the mesh.ascii file? Made by each modder self? What exactly should be updated?

Dave-O wrote:11 unfortunately will only work when you make the mesh into a croftmanorhall.mesh file

Is this correct? Or is this correct:

Dave-O wrote:But you can vertex shade upon it in Blender

One of the two statements must be wrong! Both are by CarbinT. And he gives me the blame.

Dave-O wrote: since XNAaraL doesn't want to update the shader groups

s it not the case that CarbinT has ask Dusan about the MeshGroup11? Why he says I need to change anything? Why did he not publish the response from Dusan? The response by Dusan are the truth!

The shader used by croftmanorhall.mesh has been written especially for this special case. The peculiarity is that this model, like the TRL environment uses vertex shading.

Dusan wrote:The shadows in the model come from the model itself.
It is done by changing colors assigned to each vertex of the mesh.
But you can also make your own fake lighting by changing vertex colors of your meshes in Blender and then exporting them.

That's how to do it in principle. But I think it can be tricky when it comes to actually doing it (I've never tried it in any serious way - I just checked that it works, technically speaking).

But I agree. You can do it as an insinuation, false statement, despite knowing better, or whatever. I call it character assassination.

by **XNAaraL** Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:05 pm

Very fast, thanks. Wink

MODEDIT No double posts, Some posts were deleted.

by **ClankDaxter** Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:49 pm

Double-post much?

Anyway, what are the alpha channels for?

by **XNAaraL** Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:31 am

ClankDaxter wrote:Anyway, what are the alpha channels for?

The alpha (α) channel are used by various graphic formats (eg PNG, PSD, TGA, DDS, or TIFF) to stored transparency information, in addition to the actual image data.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_compositing
More exactly here http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphakanal

by **bondlaw** Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:46 pm

Question!! i cant believe i've been working on something for xnalara for so long and quite dont get it well!! (im such a noob...) ok, my question, where can i find a good explanation of all the render groups (like a table or something) so i can understand it better.

plus, i dont speak russian Surprised

... any english version? Smile

thank you very much!!

by **XNAaraL** Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:02 am

bondlaw wrote:Question!
Where can i find a good explanation of all the render groups (like a table or something) so i can understand it better.

First post from this thread!

Table with ~~all~~ Render-Groups 1 - 29 Smile

Code:: Group | Shading | Alpha | Poseable | Specular higlight | Bump1 repeater | bump2 repeater | Textures | Texture types | Since | First model / mesh part | Downloadlink

Code:: Group | Shading | Alpha | Poseable | Specular higlight | Bump1 repeater | bump2 repeater | Textures | Texture types | Since | First model / mesh part | Downloadlink ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1 | Yes | No | Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes | 6 | Diffuse, Lightmap, Bumpmap, Mask, Bump1, Bump2 | 1.0 | LaraJungleShorts / tshirt | http://www.mediafire.com/?gc5cu5dtd2h 2 | Yes | No | Yes | Yes | No | No | 3 | Diffuse, Lightmap, Bumpmap | 1.0 | LaraJungleShorts / face | http://www.mediafire.com/?gc5cu5dtd2h 3 | Yes | No | Yes | No | No | No | 2 | Diffuse, Lightmap | 1.0 | LaraJungleShorts / backring | http://www.mediafire.com/?gc5cu5dtd2h 4 | Yes | No | Yes | Yes | No | No | 2 | Diffuse, Bumpmap | 1.0 | LaraJungleShorts / metal | http://www.mediafire.com/?gc5cu5dtd2h 5 | Yes | No | Yes | No | No | No | 1 | Diffuse | 1.0 | LaraJungleShorts / eyewhites| http://www.mediafire.com/?gc5cu5dtd2h ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 6 | Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes | No | No | 2 | Diffuse, Bumpmap | 1.0 | LaraJungleShorts / hair2 | http://www.mediafire.com/?gc5cu5dtd2h 7 | Yes | Yes | Yes | No | No | No | 1 | Diffuse | 1.0 | LaraJungleShorts / eyelashes| http://www.mediafire.com/?gc5cu5dtd2h 8 | Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes | No | No | 3 | Diffuse, Lightmap, Bumpmap | 1.8 | Natla / hair4 | http://www.mediafire.com/?4wmzyzxwj5y 9 | Yes | Yes | Yes | No | No | No | 2 | Diffuse, Lightmap | 1.8 | Natla / hair5 | http://www.mediafire.com/?4wmzyzxwj5y 10 | No | No | Yes | No | No | No | 1 | Diffuse | 1.85 | Doppelganger / eyepupils | http://www.mediafire.com/?m0q9yctdris ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 11 | Vertex | No | No | Yes | No | No | 2 | Diffuse, Bumpmap | 4.1 | CroftManorHall / Group1 | http://www.mediafire.com/?jlt33lalmjj 12 | Vertex | Yes | No | Yes | No | No | 2 | Diffuse, Bumpmap | 4.1 | CroftManorHall / Group35 | http://www.mediafire.com/?jlt33lalmjj 13 | No | No | No | No | No | No | 1 | Diffuse | 4.1 | CroftManorHall / Group91 | http://www.mediafire.com/?jlt33lalmjj 14 | No | No | No | Yes | No | No | 2 | Diffuse, Bumpmap | 4.2 | CroftManorHallLQ / Group1 | http://www.mediafire.com/?zjeznnzcgaz 15 | No | Yes | No | Yes | No | No | 2 | Diffuse, Bumpmap | 4.2 | CroftManorHallLQ / Group35 | http://www.mediafire.com/?zjeznnzcgaz ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 16 | Yes | No | No | No | No | No | 1 | Diffuse | 4.7 | Yacht / part1 | http://www.mediafire.com/?mwakzzz1djy 17 | Yes | No | No | No | No | No | 2 | Diffuse, Lightmap | 4.7 | Yacht / part5 | http://www.mediafire.com/?mwakzzz1djy 18 | Yes | Yes | No | No | No | No | 1 | Diffuse | 4.7 | Yacht / part13 | http://www.mediafire.com/?mwakzzz1djy 19 | Yes | Yes | No | No | No | No | 2 | Diffuse, Lightmap | 5.6 | ShipNatlaRoom / Mesh005 | http://www.mediafire.com/?ztjozjnninn 20 | Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes | 6 | Diffuse, Lightmap, Bumpmap, Mask, Bump1, Bump2 | 7.8 | KnightThrall / Mesh001 | http://www.mediafire.com/?z4uwig2dzum ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 21 | No | Yes | Yes | No | No | No | 1 | Diffuse | 9.1 | kerrigan / $AtlantiB$ | 22 | Yes | No | Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes | 7 | Diffuse, Lightmap, Bumpmap, Mask, Bump1, Bump2, Specular | 9.3 | ICE-7E / suit | http://www.mediafire.com/?leipjbpmeyn2w2p 23 | Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes | 7 | Diffuse, Lightmap, Bumpmap, Mask, Bump1, Bump2, Specular | 9.3 | ICE-7E / ice | http://www.mediafire.com/?leipjbpmeyn2w2p 24 | Yes | No | Yes | Yes | No | No | 4 | Diffuse, Lightmap, Bumpmap, Specular | 9.42 | 25 | Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes | No | No | 4 | Diffuse, Lightmap, Bumpmap, Specular | 9.42 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 26 | YES/No | No | Yes | Yes intensity | No | No | 3 | Diffuse, Bumpmap, enviroment | 9.5 | MetallicExample / trousers1 | http://www.mediafire.com/?g8gah73w0mv45q7 27 | YES/No | Yes | Yes | Yes intensity | No | No | 3 | Diffuse, Bumpmap, enviroment | 9.5.5 | 28 | YES/No | No | Yes | Yes intensity | YES | YES | 6 | Diffuse, Bumpmap, Mask, Bump1, Bump2, enviroment | 9.6 | 29 | YES/No | Yes | Yes | Yes intensity | YES | YES | 6 | Diffuse, Bumpmap, Mask, Bump1, Bump2, enviroment | 9.6 |

Hint:
Dont use render groups 24 and 25 because this render groups are deprecaded. Use 22 and 23 !
Dont use render groups 26 and 27 because this render groups are deprecaded. Use 28 and 29 !

The background: XNALara / XPS has the maximum possible number of shaders. These 4 shaders are the same like the already existing render groups 22, 23, 28 and 29 using the bumpmap_flat.png and and lightmap_white.png includet inside the folder data/common. By replacing these 4 shader it becomes possible to realize shadows and depth of field. XPS does this automatically for each model, which use this deprecaded render groups.

Examples for a mesh part names:

1_belts_0.1_10_20
1 == render group 1 with 6 textures Diffuse, Lightmap, Bumpmap, Mask, Bump1, Bump2
belts == a unique mesh part name
0.1 == Specular higlight value
10 == Bump map 1 repeater using a new texture which have 1o tiles horizontal and 10 tiles vertical
20 == Bump map 2 repeater.
The underscore is the field delimiter.

2_body_0.1_0_0
2 == render group 2 with 3 textures Diffuse, Lightmap, Bumpmap
body == a unique mesh part name
0.1 == Specular higlight value
0 == Bump map 1 repeater: 0 means ignore the bump map.
0 == Bump map 2 repeater: 0 means ignore the bump map.

2_body_0.1
2 == render group 2 with 3 textures Diffuse, Lightmap, Bumpmap
body == a unique mesh part name
0.1 == Specular higlight value

2_body
2 == render group 2 with 3 textures Diffuse, Lightmap, Bumpmap
body == a unique mesh part name
No Value == missing Specular higlight value means: Use the default value 0.1

22_suit_0.7_20_1
22 == render group 22 with 7 textures Diffuse, Lightmap, Bumpmap, Mask, Bump1, Bump2, Specular
suit== a unique mesh part name
0.7 == Specular higlight value
20 == Reflection value !!! This is a special case for render groups 22 and 23 using the old Generic format. The new Generic_Item format 2.3 fix this problem.
1 == Bump map 1 and bump map 2 repeater!!! This is a special case for render groups 22 and 23 using the old Generic format. The new Generic_Item format 2.3 fix this problem.

Special case render group's 28 and 29:
- the new mesh groups expect 6 textures: diffuse, bump, mask, mini bump1, mini bump2, enviroment texture and
+ 3 numeric parameters: the intensity of the metallic/reflective effect (0.0-1.0),
+ intensity of the bump effect,
+ scale of the mini bumps maps (a single value for both textures)

Example:

28_jacket1_0.2_0.5_16.0
1 # uv layers
6 # textures
jacket_diffuse.png
0 # uv layer index
jacket_bump.png
0 # uv layer index
jacket1_mask.png
0 # uv layer index
jacket1_bump1.png
0 # uv layer index
jacket1_bump2.png
0 # uv layer index
environment.dds
0 # uv layer index

Note that this effect requires shaders v3.0.

by **ryuhayabusa94** Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:13 pm

Hi
This is very interesting and necessary. Could you make a list describe all the parameter value of each render group? For exampl, you said that for group 2

2_body_0.1_0_0
2 == render group 2 with 3 textures Diffuse, Lightmap, Bumpmap
body == a unique mesh part name
0.1 == Specular higlight value
0 == Bump map 1 repeater: 0 means ignore the bump map.
0 == Bump map 2 repeater: 0 means ignore the bump map.

Can you explain the value of other groups? That would be very helpful to make a mesh and export into XNALARA.

by **XNAaraL** Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:10 pm

The values of other groups are the same ... except (like I have say) for 22,23 and 26,27,28,29

Looks also here http://xnalara.home-forum.com/t170-xnalara-xna-posing-studio-latest-version
version 9.6 -- release 131
- new mesh groups #28 (opaque) and #29 (transparent) which support metallic reflections AND full bump mapping including mini bump maps
- the new mesh groups expect 6 textures: diffuse, bump, mask, mini bump1, mini bump2, enviroment texture and 3 numeric parameters: the intensity of the metallic/reflective effect (0.0-1.0), intensity of the bump effect, scale of the mini bumps maps (a single value for both textures)

9.55 -- release 130
- new mesh group #27: metallic shader which supports transparency
9.5 -- release 128
- true metallic shader: supported by new mesh group #26
- the shader expects three textures on its input: diffuse, bump and environment texture (a spherical panoramic image of the 3D environment which will be reflected by the surface); plus one numeric parameter which defines the intensity of the metallic/reflective effect (ranging from 0.0 to 1.0)

9.3 -- release 122
1) Specular maps:
- new mesh groups #22 (opaque models) and #23 (with transparency) which expect the following 7 textures on input:
diffuse, lightmap, bump, mask, bump1, bump2 and specular map
- specular maps are textures which define (per pixel) the color and intensity of the light reflected off the given surface
- the global intensity (multiplier) of the gloss/specular effect for the whole mesh part is the same as before: the floating point value in the mesh name, for example 22_jacket_1.0_16_16; so set this value to 1.0 (or even higher) and then modify the per-pixel intensity of the effect with the brightness of pixels in the specular map/texture
- you can use this effect to increase realism of your images, or even to produce crazy effects as shown below
- this effect requires shaders v3.0 (or just a single-light setup with shaders v2.0)

by **Zantetsukens-cut** Thu May 27, 2021 6:13 am

Back like 5 or 6 years ago I had got a render group list from one of the xnalara forums sites that also showed the type of material the groups were designed to be used on with images to help you get a better understanding of what needed to be done.
But now all I can find a lists that just show the numbers and texture requirements. any idea where something like that can be found I could really use it right about now

by **XNAaraL** Mon May 31, 2021 2:15 am

I remember this days. It was 12 years ago Wink

One of my first extension for XNALara. Render Groups and Generic_Item.mesh format --> XNALara 7.2
https://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=4220832&postcount=209
https://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=4216644&postcount=201

1_ fabric with 6 textures
2_ skin with 3 textures
3_ matt metal
4_ simulation of micro-details of the surface with a bump map
5_ smooth surfaces
6_ transparent with bump map
7_ transparent

This days, we can use the "XPS-->Modify-->Material Editor ..."
https://xnalara.forumotion.com/t311-xna-posing-studio-xps-11-2-wild-hunt-edition-release-179#2354

Note that you should not use TGA texture files format !
Lesson 5. "What is render groups?" 1621399327-max-100

Lesson 5. "What is render groups?" 1621399327-max-100

by **Zantetsukens-cut** Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:27 pm

Yeah I've seen it but there something still satisfying about manually editing it using a text editor. And because right now I only have an android device which has really shitty apps when it comes to 3d modeling.

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